I bet you would rather go hunting with Dick Cheney...
than drive over a bridge with Ted Kennedy...
or serve in the Navy with John Kerry...
or have your daughter serve as an intern for Bill Clinton.
If your mind is too open, your brain will fall out. Warning: Names, identities, descriptions, and pictures have been changed and/or used to protect the innocent as well as the guilty. PollyPeoria should not be used or quoted as a source for your senior college thesis.
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33 comments:
WRONG!
I've got a real problem with the slaps at Kerry's war record. Spitting on veterans is an ugly thing, regardless of who's doing it.
Maybe instead of scrambling for those five deferments, Cheney should've gone into the Army and learned how to handle a gun.
Accountability system Rob? Are you freaking kidding me?! Cheney admits he was fully at fault. Did allow someone to die because he ran to his lawyer instead of calling for help or the police? No. That was Kennedy. Did he deny ever having been there? No, that was Clinton. Has he ever inflated his record? No. That was Kerry.
Immediately following the ACCIDENT calls for first aid and the police were made. Shortly thereafter the local media was informed. I think the network media has its panties in a bunch because they weren't given the story first and thus were unable to exploit the event and blow it completely out of portion.
And Snazzzy, I love ya, but all of Kerry's purple hearts were awarded for self inflicted wounds. I would still take Cheney's gun knowledge over Kerry's any day.
Dear Polly - don't know how you are related to "The Dick" but it is apparent that you are!
People......it was a freaking hunting accident!!! Get over it.
sctobrien says....
Jesus....have you swallowed the entire jug of KoolAid.
First, the bum went back and drank more booze; next, if he gave such a shit about the guy after shooting him in the face, why didn't he go to the hospital or have him flown to the hospital.
Next, how many hunters out there go hunting with two women that are not their wives.
And lastly, what kind of sick bastard kills 70 quail in one day and a countless number of ducks?
As for Kerry.....show me about any veterans paperwork that is not embellished on and I'll show you a rare thing.
Get over it - the man when to war when asked. Buckshot and Dressup man Bush evaded wars because they are worthless cowards who would rather let someone do their fighting for them.
As for Kennedy - when has he ever been the VP?
...but all of Kerry's purple hearts were awarded for self inflicted wounds...
That's a lie and I'm disappointed that you wrote it. The U.S. Navy does not award Purple Hearts for self-inflicted wounds. Saying so disrespects a decorated war veteran and the U.S. military as a whole.
Sctobrien says...
Chase, stick to screwing people when it comes to hotels and places to stay....why don't you go buy the Lucky Lady II and promise them a bunch of crap..
in any case, the service record of the only presidential candidate to suppress re-publication of his own book will be cleared up once he releases his military records. since he also claims (see meet the press, last feb.) to have delivered weapons to the Khmer Rouge in Cambodia for the CIA, maybe he can get a medal for memory, too, no one else seems to remember it.
Dear Anonymous,
re: but all of Kerry's purple hearts were awarded for self inflicted wounds... That's a lie and I'm disappointed that you wrote it.
Actually it isn't a lie. While Kerry's wounds may have not been DILIBERATELY self inflicted. They were, in fact, caused by his own actions/mistakes/mishaps/incompetency, etc. He did not suffer any wound due to enemy fire.
None of the Doctors who treated Kerry for his wounds felt they were superficial and not worthy of a purple medal and thus did not recommend he recieve one.
Polly
they were, in fact, caused by his own actions/mistakes/mishaps/incompetence, etc. He did not suffer any wound due to enemy fire.
None of the Doctors who treated Kerry for his wounds felt they were superficial and not worthy of a purple medal and thus did not recommend he receive one.
I can only say one thing to that -- Prove it. And without relying on a book that was published explicitly for the purpose of killing Kerry's chances of winning an election.
Do you really think the U.S. military, then or now, awards Purple Hearts to people who don't deserve them? Multiple times? John Kerry was awarded a Silver Star, a Bronze Star with Combat V, and three Purple Hearts. If you don't know how significant those medals are, then, well, look it up. Do you really believe that they are fake? Do you Polly? Do you think the U.S. military is not to be trusted or competent enough to reward heroism? Does that mean that the medals awarded during our excellent Iraq adventure are suspect?
Face it. John Kerry is a war hero and George W. Bush and Dick Cheney are war cowards.
People, like you, who minimize heroism in defense of our country because of political differences are disgusting to me. You are a partisan, not a patriot.
I hope you think about that.
Sctobrien says....
Polly,
You are one of the reasons why women should be in combat - so maybe if you were, you would understand that in combat or hazardous duty a million things can happen.
Kerry's actions are well documented. As are Bush's and Cheney's. For the life of me, I simply can't understand how any American can't differentiate between the two. But the most dispicable item is that of these three men, one volunteered to go while two actively did everthing they could do to avoid going. THAT in itself is a true measure of a man's character.
So get over it - Bush and Cheney are cowards when it comes to their own skins. You know, at least Clinton was consistent with his own beliefs - not only did he not want to go to Vietnam, he openely opposed it while what did these two knuckleheads do? While in favor of something, they lacked the courage to actively support it and avoided it. Sheesh....
"THAT in itself is a true measure of a man's character."
I think you've got a limited view on the making of a man. You need to dig deeper.
Willingness to shoot and be shot is not the sum total of your value as a human being. That mentality would put the September 11th bombers on the top of a teetering social ladder.
All of this political he-said/she-said turns real people, who are complicated and multifaceted (yet woefully flawed) creatures, into little more than charactertures of themselves.
Is Kerry's life summed up by his slandering the military after the war? Of course not. Is Bush's character defined by his avoidance of the war? I hope not. That kind of measure doesn't bode well for any of us...yourself included, Mr. O'Brien.
I'm pro-military. But I, for one, would have dodged that boondoggle for everything I'm worth.
Is Kerry's life summed up by his slandering the military after the war?
Another lie/myth. In Kerry's testimony to congress about the the "Winter Soldiers" meeting in Detroit in '69, or whenever it was, he told them what other soldiers reported about what they said they did in Vietnam. He never "slandered the military". Watch the film of his testimony. Because the war was so widely unpopular by that time, the Nixon White House couldn't tolerate any relatively high profile individual, like a 5 time decorated, articulate Yale graduate leader of the veterans against the war, undermine their efforts to save their political asses. So they enlisted John O'Neill, who never served with Kerry, to slander Kerry. That's where the slander occurred. Then in 2004, they trotted O'Neill out again, you guys bought it, and we have the mess we have now.
Anon,
The Swiftboat Campaign damaged Kerry, but it was not the straw that doomed his election.
The critical swing states were won by anti-gay marriage and legalization of maryjane that were put on the ballots. Apparently, a lot of Democrats have a problem with gays marrying or pot becoming legal. I think where gays are concerned it might be a more of a generational thing than a conservative/liberal issue.
Anyhoo, a lot of people feel threatened by pot and gays and the Republicans were able to capitalize on that feeling. Frankly, if said social issues are what Americans really feel are most important/urgent/threatening, they picked the correct candidate.
IMHO, Kerry also came off as an arrogant, wealthy, East Coast/preppy snob which rubbed your average (especially in Ohio and Flordia) citizen the wrong way.
Kerry would have had a better chance if he would have stated specifically what he would do to "win the peace" in Iraq, and how he'd get us out of there. He failed miserably on both accounts, and therefore failed to give a solid reason to change leadership.
Interesting that someone who was only in Veitnam for several weeks would be a "five time decorated" military hero. Let alone collect three purple hearts for wounds, that were... uh... let us say, NOT inflicted by the enemy.
Bush isn't -by far- our best president, but Kerry is a poser and you know it.
Scotobrien says...
Polly,
Go back and do your homework...Kerry was in the theater of Vietnam for longer than five weeks. If my memory is correct, it was a tour and a half.
If Kerry is a poser, then Bush is the king of posers - come on. Open your lying eyes: look at all the "manly" events this guy stages. The flying in on a carrier in a flight suit, the photo ops, the cowboy tough talk, et cetera, et cetera.
Now, I certainly do not believe you have to be in a macho world to be a man, but it's obvious Bush is a pure chickenshit who hides behinds the legs of others when things get tough.
Watching “ditto-heads” is very entertaining. When something happens that reflects badly on a Republican they invoke their most powerful spell and utter “Ted Kennedy” or “Bill Clinton” or the ever ominous “Hillary”. It is like their +5 cloak of invincibility. It is soothing to them – sort of like a drag on a cigarette is to a smoker. It relieves them of the need to confront reality. Each weekday (except when Rush is off golfing) they get their dose of propaganda, predigested – no thinking required - and the world is then good.
The Swiftboat Campaign damaged Kerry, but it was not the straw that doomed his election.
Agreed. However, if it wasn't for the swift boaters, who knows?
Apparently, a lot of Democrats have a problem with gays marrying or pot becoming legal.
I disagree. Those issues were placed on ballots expressly to turn out conservative Christian voters. Those issues had nothing to do with who one voted for in any particular race. The people (republicans) who placed those issues on ballots knew that those who were more likely to vote against them were more likely to vote for Bush/Cheney. It was clearly a calculated fear-based get-out-the-vote ploy. And it worked.
Anyhoo, a lot of people feel threatened by pot and gays and the Republicans were able to capitalize on that feeling.
As I said...
Frankly, if said social issues are what Americans really feel are most important/urgent/threatening, they picked the correct candidate.
Did they? What has the Bush/Cheney administration done? Sure, they've gone after medical marijuana laws pretty aggressively, those pesky laws that help people with chronic pain, but what have they actually done about gay marriage? The issue of gay marriage is one the republicans don't want to go away. It's gold for them ... like abortion.
IMHO, Kerry also came off as an arrogant, wealthy, East Coast/preppy snob which rubbed your average (especially in Ohio and Florida) citizen the wrong way.
Agreed. He was a horrible candidate -- and he came very close to winning.
Kerry would have had a better chance if he would have stated specifically what he would do to "win the peace" in Iraq, and how he'd get us out of there.
I disagree. If he ran on that today, maybe he'd win. The problem is very complicated. There is no easy way out at this point and there wasn't in Fall, 2004, either. The issue is that we should never have gone to war with Iraq in the first place. How does a subsequent administration deal with that we did? And how does an opposing candidate deal with it other than offering the opposite when everyone knows the opposite is not a good policy? Along with all the negative, personal attacks that Kerry (and Gore, btw) endured (and you continue) he was at a severe disadvantage because of the war. And he still almost won.
Interesting that someone who was only in Vietnam for several weeks...
Not true. Another lie.
Let alone collect three purple hearts for wounds, that were... uh... let us say, NOT inflicted by the enemy.
Okay, prove it or shut the F up. Purple Hearts are awarded for wounds received in combat. What part of in combat don't you understand? If a U.S. soldier was about to throw a grenade but was shot by the enemy in a fire fight just before it left his hand, and a second soldier then picked it up to throw but it exploded and injured (but not killed) the second soldier, would you deny the second soldier a Purple Heart just because he wasn't wounded directly by the enemy? Polly says deny. The U.S. military says award. Get over it, Polly. Kerry either earned his medals or the entire U.S. military is corrupt. You make the call. (btw, in case your didn’t know, GWB and Dead Eye Dick have never even been close to combat, unless you consider shooting an old man in the face being combat).
Bush isn't -by far- our best president
Agreed.
but Kerry is a poser and you know it.
I know that he has served his country throughout his life, for whatever motivation, but, no, I don't think he is a poseur, just a bad politician.
Kerry was not seriously injured in combat. No doctor recommended him for a purple heart. If you had served in the military you would know that anyone can put in for a medal. Kerry was in Veitnam for exactly four months and 12 days. He didn't have what it took to endure Vietnam for an entire tour, which would be one year, let alone a tour and a half.
Kerry came to Vietnam in November 1968 and requested a transfer out on March 17, 1969 using "the three purple hearts and you're out" excuse. Those who have three purple hearts can request such a transfer and Kerry did what it took to "win"/secure three purple hearts.
Kerry refused to authorize access to his military files during his campaign. However, the doctors who treated him were all part of the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth campaign.
Even Kerry freely admitted during his campaign that none of his injuries required more than a bandaid.
I think Kerry had political aspirations from the begining and knew being in Veitnam could only further those plans. Once there, clearly he couldn't take the heat. No shame in that. The shame is the lies he told to get the hell out and then coming back and disparraging others who served their complete tours in numerous interviews. That makes Kerry a POSER.
Kerry has not served his country throughout his life. He has hurt it, repeatedly. Since you proclaim him to be a "bad politician" than even you agree he hasn't served his country, politics being his job and all.
People take advantage of loopholes all the time Anon, a huge institution would not have to be "entirely corrupt" and an individual would not have necessary earned nor deserved every honored they have received. Puhleeze, what fairyland are you living in.
Google Swiftboat Veterans for Truth and watch the interviews with vets who served with Kerry, the doctors who treated him, and even Kerry himself giving interviews to the press at the time where he insults the "band of brothers" who served with him. Considering Kerry's behavior during and after Vietnam, ditching the draft entirely would have been the more honorable way to go.
Of those "brothers" that served with him on Swift Boat Anon, only three support him today. Kerry's miltary fitness reports are far from complimentary. Again, Kerry is a POSER, and yeah, I do think you know it.
It A LOT took more than far right conservative Christians (who have always turned out to vote, btw) to win Ohio and Flordia. The gay marriage and anti pot referendums were successful in bringing both moderates and conservatives Democrats to vote for Bush. The average American (Democrat or Republican) does not favor gay marriage or the legalizaton of pot. People fear change, especially when it comes to gays marrying.
Oh! And another thing! I can't stand Rush. I've listened to his show maybe twice, about ten years ago. He was way too arrogant and sexist for my taste. I'm Republican, but I haven't been brainwashed to believe that every Republican politican/agenda is right, pure and good. Of the two choices given, the GOP -even with its numerous flaws- better represents me than the Democratic Party and their numerous flaws. Gotta pick your poison, so to speak.
I've listened to his show maybe twice
rriiiight...
only three support him today
Lie/false. I lean toward lie. Didn't you see that stupid boat trip into Boston Harbor prior to the DemocraTIC convention? Those were veterans who served with him ON HIS BOAT. And they seemed quite proud to be there too. They were there with him in Viet Nam (and Boston) and still you prefer to believe people who weren't.
We're going to have to agree to disagree about this. You are inclined to accept and cite from a book that no serious person accepts as accurate. I, on the other hand, am inclined to accept the military's version, and his boatmates' accounts, of things.
Come on, Polly. you HATE Kerry. Just go ahead and admit it. You'll feel better.
The political right is really full of hate now as they see their grip on power slipping away... Not that they haven't always been full of hate before, of course...
Sctobrien says....
Polly,
You have clearly been only listening to the Swiftboat Liars. Every one of your repeated contentions from them have been proven to be lies by those jerks, so I will not waste my time going back over them.
For your information, Kerry was also on a Navy vessel for sometime in the theater of Vietnam. Check your facts.
And you know, just what the hell do you know about combat or hazardous duty? Evidently, not a lot. Hell, a person can be quite aggressive regardless of the amount of time spent in a place like Vietnam. But I guess you think a man guarding the US by flying over the Gulf of Mexico is braver than a man who volunteered for Vietnam. Go figure.
So go ahead and stay on your Fantasy Island and keep all your phoney real men with you (How odd that Cheney always has himself photographed doing manly things while having a bum ticker - THAT is just how bizarre your party's image of manhood has become.)
I not a Democrat because (aside from being pro-life) I find that party to be unhappy, hateful and bitter. By and large, I think the left has the most unkind and hateful people around.
I don't hate Kerry. I just think he is a poser.
Scoto- Chill Baby! I am closely related to a Gulf War Vet, and have had up close contact with the military. If you were a regular reader of my blog, you would know this. How in the hell did you conclude:
"But I guess you think a man guarding the US by flying over the Gulf of Mexico is braver than a man who volunteered for Vietnam."
I don't believe that! Driving for a week in Chicago could make a nun an agressive maniac, for pete's sake. Calm down and read EVERY word (instead of every fourth or fifth), before you post. Not that I mind, but I am a bit concerned about your blood pressure/cardiac health, man.
Anon and Scot, you can watch Kerry's full, uncut, interviews on numerous sites after he returned home from Vietnam. Kerry's own thoughts, words, and deeds condemn him more than any others.
Okay, this is my last comment on this topic:
I find that party to be unhappy, hateful and bitter.
Projection is an amazing thing. There's no doubt that both sides have plenty of all of that. However, it is a BIG TIME talking point for republicas now. Just listen to Rush (who you say you hate, but I doubt it) and Sean (who maybe you love). They cite the hate on the left all the time.
The emotions your hear from the left, and mostly from the middle now, are not hate or bitternes, just unhappinesss. We don't like where your boys and girls are leading us. Do you? This is the biggest big government administration, maybe ever. This is the administration that led us into an optional, unnecessary war (sorry to your relative but I'll bet h/she has some doubts) that's breaking the bank even more. This is also the adminstration that has demonstrated such incompetence on so many decisions (Katrina, ports, medicare, social security, leaking national security info, etc.), that I can't believe you continue to defend them except if you are a plant. Someone who is being paid by the repiblica party.
Anon,
The only media I can stomach is the McNeil News Hour, NPR, and IF I've had a beer or two, Bob Schiffer. I also try watch local news a few times a week. Rush, Sean, Fox Network in general fall into the same category as Jerry Springer and Howard Stern. Arrogant gas bags or people yelling at each other and getting no where. I despise talk radio and never listen to it - unless "Outside the Horseshoe" and "All Things Considered" count. Liberal or Conservative, the format/forum is intolerable to me. I also despise CNN. I get most of my information from the print media- I have subscriptions to the New York Times, The Wall Street Journal and the Journal Star.
When Regan was president, I was surprised how many liberals absolutely hated the guy. I could understand him not being one's cup of tea, not liking what he stood for, etc., but I could not understand the venemous hatred Regan stirred in the hearts of so many Democrats....
And then came Clinton, and I understood completely. I so despised and felt Clinton was both incompetent, a liar, sexist, and a horrible embarrassment to the country, that I actually I felt physically ill when I saw his image or heard his voice.
What I'm saying, Anon, is that I understand your "unhappiness." I've been there, and I feel for you.
Hopefully our country can come up with a candidate that both sides can better stomach next time around.
Frederico "Fredo" Corleone: Every time I put my line in the water I said a Hail Mary, and every time I said a Hail Mary I caught a fish.
"I say puke on you.
You know s/he didn't really mean "puke", right?
Almost forty comments, Polly. Is that a record?
*Inhales, puffs up with pride* Why, yes, Peoriadad, definitely a record. Although since many of them are mine, I'm not sure it counts. Thanks for noticing. Miss you man!
A-Ha! I am the fortieth!
Yeah, I miss the blogging. But I gotta tell ya, I have a lot more productive time on my hands. (Not that I wanted more, mind you.)
So anyway, is that really your pic? If it is...are you nuts? You really want the Chase's of the world knowing what you look like? My advice is keep that virtual wall as high as you can make it. These things are NOT worth the possible repercussions.
Yeah, it is my pic, but I figure it is vague enough that I can deny it's me if need be. I posted it because a few others have been accused of being Polly and have suffered the consequences- which isn't my fault but I have guilt nonetheless. So, you see, Dad, you just can't win no matter what you do.
I'm lucky in that my boss knows and doesn't care. Well, he does care, but he also believes in my right to free speech/hissy fits. He just asked me not to use the company name, logo, or the real name of any employee when blogging about work. Fair enough.
How about coming back with a high virtual wall. I bet Bill Dennis would help construct a pretty strong one...
Scotbrien said...
Polly,
And in the tapes of Kerry speaking, it is clear that he is reading what OTHERS have written about things that went on.
Also, it is easily read in the transcripts.
As for "knowing" a vet or being friends with one, sorry, that's not the same thing.
See, the difference between you and I, regardless of whether someone is a liberal, conservative, Dem or Repub, when it comes to military service, especially that of combat service, I don't care what a person is. I DO NOT criticize when it comes to this sort of service and no one can ever point to my words and show where I have criticized someone for LEGITMATE military service. (Sorry, Bush's service was not legitmate in my eyes and he is open for severe criticism.)
For example, one person's military service I most admire is that of Tom Ridge, the former DHS secretary. Most do not know he has hearing loss and wears hearing aids because of combat. Or look at Gray Davis, the former Gov of California. Most do not know he was a combat LT in Vietnam.
Scott:
"Sorry, Bush's service was not legitmate in my eyes and he is open for severe criticism."
Funny. That's EXACTLY how I feel about Kerry's military service. I watched the actual Kerry Interview (Dick Cavet Show Tape). Kerry did NOT read anyone else's statements.
I don't just "know" a vet. I wrote that am closely related to one. In fact, I spend most of my waking hours/free time with a Gulf War Vet. No doubt, that isn't the same as BEING a vet, not by a long shot. However, I will say that the first Gulf War was the most anxious time of my life. I spent most of my free time/waking hours back then worrying that my Significant Other might not make it home okay. Those were the olden days before e-mail. I went weeks at a time without knowing how S.O. was fairing. My Vet and as I'm sure you are aware many, many, many other vets do not consider Kerry's military service legit. Thus the power behind the Swiftboat Vet for Truth Campaign.
McCain and the suffering he endured during the Vietnam War as a POW impressed me. Especially considering he was offerred the opportunity by his tormenters to be released due to the serious nature of his wounds... but he refused the offer.
Sctobrien says....
The Dick Cavett interview is not what I am talking about or what the other poster was talking about. That was an interview.
What Kerry was mainly criticized for was his appearance before congress where he READ the comments of other soldiers (if you look at the most well know image of Kerry with his hand on his head, that is from when he appeared before Congress).
And if you go back and look at honest accountings of the Swift Boat crap, you will find most of it has been proven to be lies. You can dispute it all you want and listen to John O'Neill and his lies, but after the 2004 campaign was over, O'Neill's lies were even further proven.
And I would imagine many soliders who debunk Kerry's service are those that believed the lies from the Swiftboat people (which oddly happen to be people who strongly defend Bush's service and have nothing critical to say about Cheney while in the same breath want to send Clinton to damnation for his lack of military service).
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